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GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Other Players

Goldmaking Ethics – Responsibility to Other Players The GoldMaking Ethics is a series of Warcraft Opinion Articles documenting responses to ethical questions posed on Twitter on 8 May 2018. Tweets are presented out of context, and you can click them to read the rest of the conversation. You are always welcome to chat with me […]

May 14, 2018/by The Gold Queen

Battle For Azeroth

GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Guildmates

GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Guildmates The GoldMaking Ethics is a series of Warcraft Opinion Articles documenting responses to ethical questions posed on Twitter on 8 May 2018. Tweets are presented out of context, and you can click them to read the rest of the conversation. You are always welcome to chat with me on […]

May 13, 2018/by The Gold Queen

Battle For Azeroth

GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Other Players

May 14, 2018/by The Gold Queen

Battle For Azeroth

GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Guildmates

May 13, 2018/by The Gold Queen

Full Sized Blog Element (Big Preview Pic)

Battle For Azeroth

GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Other Players

Goldmaking Ethics – Responsibility to Other Players

The GoldMaking Ethics is a series of Warcraft Opinion Articles documenting responses to ethical questions posed on Twitter on 8 May 2018.

Tweets are presented out of context, and you can click them to read the rest of the conversation. You are always welcome to chat with me on twitter where my name is @thegoldqueen and you can find Gold Dragon here also @Dragonbearjoe

We have 9 articles for you to read, culminating in a TGQ Long Read with my own opinions. Today we talk about our responsibility to be kind to other players on the server, or the lack of that responsibility.

All stories were gathered in a judgement-free atmosphere. I understand if you disagree with other people or get upset by it, but during the Ethics Questions, we are examining responses in a detached scientific manner.

World of Warcraft is a multiplayer game. The other characters are played by real people. We talked on twitter about our responsibility to treat them well and our ethics about interacting with other players.

Is Gold Making helpful to other players on the server?

Ethics:
Does making gold help other players or not?

What if you are farming and selling ore?

What if you are just buying things on AH and reselling higher?

— The Gold Queen 💛 (@thegoldqueen) May 8, 2018

Put on your Big Boy Pants

OG Dragon says gold making feels really good.

Here is the macro I use to respond to gold-begs: / Your mama is not in this channel to hear you whine for a handout, son. Time to pull up your big boy pants and make your own gold! It feels really good.
🔥

— O.G. Dragon (@OGdragonDotCom) May 9, 2018

Education is Giving

Darkshore Capital chats about learning lessons and how helpful this can be.

All makes sense and I have no problem at all with that attitude. I know my hope that learning a lesson in a game might save someone when its 'real' is somewhat far fetched, but hey you never know.

— Darkshore Capital (@DarkshoreCap) May 9, 2018

Undercutting is fair.

I believe that undercutting your friend is honourable. Whitelisting, or refusing to undercut is an insult to their ability to make gold. CatGoesWoof agrees and would not hold back against any friend, even their life partner. Competition makes you work harder.

My OH is a much better goldmaker than me. We wouldn't dream of 'holding back' in competing, in markets, pricing or life in general. If I undercut him he'd laugh, congratulate me & work harder. Ultimately we're on the same side, it's win-win.

— CatGoesWoof (@Kittycowe) May 8, 2018

Sound Bite

Odin Omen and Mara even have a sound bite to listen to on the subject of ethics

Found it! Gosh, this is pretty old now. Great how ya'll helped out that other Warcraft guild. Hope this helps. https://t.co/zP91hPbdV1

— Odin Omen (@Odin_Omen) May 8, 2018

How much do you give your fellow player?

Do you give them what they ask for, or what they need? Jonathan wants to know!

@thegoldqueen Ethics question: Someone asks the value of an item. Do you quote the value your addon gives? Do you add personal knowledge? That it doesn't sell frequently, or varies widely in price? A reason it may be worth WAY MORE than what you see on the AH? (ex:Breed of Pet)

— Jonathan Andrist (@rwfrk) May 8, 2018

Love the competitive game in the Auction House

Studen loves the back and forth of auction house pvp.

i might be strange, but i actually LOVE the competition during undercutting, i dont mind my friends and viewers undercutting me, that's apart of the game. so i do my best to undercut them, and they do the same too me!

— Studen Albatroz (@StudenAlbatroz) May 8, 2018

Amanda is the same

Yep, I've undercut my friend… she undercuts me. We undercut together. We farm together. We both want gold. We both call each other bitches about it. We both laugh when someone tries to undercut us. We both laugh when we undercut someone else. We are friends.

— Amanda Thomas (@sanquisdragon) May 8, 2018

Side Question

A wild question appears from wild (via Rhalliord)! Which character should they post on the auction house with? Does it matter? I think it does and talk about this a lot in my memebers-only guide. You can get access to this by becoming a monthly patreon donor.

@thegoldqueen all your questions today have me thinking.. am I more likely to be successful selling stuff on the AH as a level one bank toon? Or a level 110 ? Do people check the level of people before buying ? If you see a level one selling a rare mount do you get suspicious?

— Rhalliord the crazy cat man (@LouplaysWoW) May 8, 2018

Education Education Education

Sivation sells item on the Auction House that could be bought cheaper elsewhere, and is content that his sales help people to learn. Then he references a sales technique that I first described back in 2010! Drive up the perceived item value, so that your normal priced item appears cheap.

It’s also effectively a “Doesn’t use @wowhead surcharge as well”! Charge as much as the market will bear.
I’ve done things like deliberately pricing an item insanely high for a while & then drop the price right down to catch those who blindly trust addons as well.

— Sivation (@Sivation) May 8, 2018

Profit is Profit

It’s that simple, says Pointygnome

I don't have a set margin compensation-wise but any kinds of profit you can get = profit. You're providing easy-access to items people would otherwise have to look for on WoWhead, head to vendor and buy the item(s). Everybody wins.

— David (@Pointygnome) May 8, 2018

Work deserves rewards

Tiapriestess thinks they deserve a decent return on their work. I agree.

If I'm making the effort for myself, I expect a chance at the returns on those efforts. If on the other hand, I'm more or less leeching off others due to laziness or inability to fully contribute, I'll try to share in the opportunities/items.

— Tiapriestess (@Tiapriestess) May 8, 2018

What About The Small Items?

Persephonae reminds us not to forget our roots. Remember when you needed that cheap item, but eveything in the auction house was overpriced? A balance of prices is the answer.

i personally make sure i post all my lowlvl mats even if my breakpoint for goldmaking is say 300g. that malachite is gonna go up too cause i know how good it feels to need something little and feel relieved when i go to the AH and actually find it, I like to make people feel good

— Persephonæ (@PersephonaeofZJ) May 8, 2018

Education

Manech is here to help teach! We have a responsibility to help pass on our information and experience. I agree, that’s why I write the website!

Created a gold making channel in Discord linking multiple videos, links to experts like you.
Also my pinned tweet for everyone on here who asked how I make gold via order halls.

— Manech (@MichaelJPetty) May 8, 2018

Just Gift

Jagerfish gives gifts to their friends. aw

It's still pretty selfish but a friend of mine came back to the game after a long break and I bought a Vial of the Sands so I could ferry him around until he could fly properly.

— Jagerfish (@NigelTheLondon) May 8, 2018

But Beware

Rain would raise the alarm if there was something that could harm others.

Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own choices. But if I knew a practice put ppl at risk, I would raise the alarm. Because I care and I don't want to see ppl get hurt

— 🌧️Rain🌧️ (@rainspirit11) May 8, 2018

Should this be a question?

I have a moral obligation to be a good girl, says Runesael. Don’t worry, Runesael, I try!

Why can't people just be honest and do things the right way the first time? Holy shit, why is this even a question?

If you're a teacher you absolutely have a moral obligation to show people the right way and the moral way to do the thing you do.

Don't abuse power.

— Rune de la Peña Johansson (@Runesael) May 8, 2018

Karma’s gonna get ya

FlameFlash references something dear to my heart: Golden Manners for a Golden Reputation. A good reputation can’t be bought.

Ethics are connected to your reputation. People aren't stupid and slowly you'll find yourself blacklisted in both game and life.

— FlameFlash (@flameflash) May 8, 2018

Things got Meta

What if you are treating other players well, but try to force other players to be ethical. Is that ethical?

This gets ethical where we force our player behaviour upon others to some degree. We determine prices on the auction house and dictate how much people have to earn in order to purchase x.

— Brunold, a gnome mage pondering real life (@TobiasTegge) May 9, 2018

Interesting. If you are a "high moral" person but try to enforce high morals, are you just as bad as an immoral player??

Opinions welcome https://t.co/IrA9TZqD6F

— The Gold Queen 💛 (@thegoldqueen) May 9, 2018

Over to you

How do you treat the other players on your server? Are they fair game or potential family?

About the Author

Warcraft’s longest running Gold Making blog, The Gold Queen is written by Alyzande since 2010. Working on her 14th level 110, she has 9 years expertise in making gold, 19,000+ achievements, 1593 days played, over 39 million gold earned, and now playing World of Warcraft Legion live on www.twitch.tv/thegoldqueen The Gold Queen blog teaches you how to make gold playing Warcraft using ethical trading, auction house flipping, crafting, reselling, snatch lists, and farming gold making. Want more updates on Warcraft Battle for Azeroth? Support my Patreon for exclusive pre-release Gold Guides

May 14, 2018/by The Gold Queen

Battle For Azeroth

GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Guildmates

The GoldMaking Ethics is a series of Warcraft Opinion Articles documenting responses to ethical questions posed on Twitter on 8 May 2018.

We have 9 articles for you to read, culminating in a TGQ Long Read with my own opinions. Today we talk about our ethical responsibility to guild mates. Do we treat them like friends, colleagues or competitors? Where is that line? And how do we arrive at that opinion?

I posed a series of questions and got an avalanche of opinions about how we should treat our Warcraft Guild Mates!

Sold!

Emrie accidentally sells to his guild mates!

When this happens to me I usually contact them and chat about it.

.@thegoldqueen I've unknowingly sold overpriced flasks, foods, enchants, gems, drums, tomes, and potions to guildies.

I say unkowingly because I just posted neat stacks and they bought them.

I told them, and they just said they just wanted the right stack.

Ethics?

— Emrie (@Emrie01) May 9, 2018

Nothing is Free

Daphne says never to give anything free

Never give guildies anything free, cause what about the others that don't have it, that means you are saying they are better then the one you didn't give anything to.

— daphne hoole (@DaphneHoole) May 9, 2018

But Kyle and Yetian disagree, and they give their guild mates items at mats cost

Same here, a guild is meant to be made up of like minded friends that help each other. At least the ones I'm a part of.

— Yetian (@MMOYeti) May 9, 2018

Size Matters

Zulell has a small guild of close friends, but things could be different

I’m in a small, tight knit guild. We don’t charge each other for raid food, enchants, or really anything. I’m sure it would be different if we were a giant guild but thankfully we’re not.

— Zullell (@Zullell) May 9, 2018

It’s Free!

Zombeeman says give it away free

It’s a guildie, I give it to them free if I have it. If I don’t, then I give them what they are missing in gold if I can.

— Zombeeman (@ZombeeDan) May 9, 2018

Or just for mats!

But our own Gold Dragon has a bad experience of this

I had one guildee that during lich king was taking gems I was putting in the guild bank and selling them on the AH to 'recover his costs on leveling'.
I had a very direct discussion how he was wrong in doing this. Ultimately he ended leaving the guild.

— The Gold Dragon (@Dragonbearjoe) May 9, 2018

Give Everything Away!

Shohno is super generous to their guild mates

i give guildies bags, gear for free. if it’s mounts i just have them but orbs or whatever. if that lol i just like to give ppl stuff. i used to hang out i the starter zones giving out neatherweave bags and $100g lol. it was fun 😃😃😃

— shohno (@shohno721) May 9, 2018

We help each other

Kegarot enjoys giving to their guildies, because they know they will get something back. Sounds like a trustworthy guild.

I guess this is one of the joys of being in such a small guild with people you can class as friends. We all know we will use the item and will pay each other back in other ways. Example Fia giving me that boe mace on stream, I used it and she got stuff for her alliance toon.

— Keg (@Kegarot) May 8, 2018

Involve the Officers

If there’s a problem, defer to authority, says Jagerfish

If it's an old-school, tight-knit guild, involve the officers and resolve the problem. If it's one of those new 'neighborhood' guilds where people are just kinda in the guild randomly, it's your loss.

— Jagerfish (@NigelTheLondon) May 8, 2018

Never Again

Nef would be disappointed by unethical behaviour in guild mates

You never give that person anything free again. You talk and say although it wasn't explicit, you expected it to be used by them, and you're disappointed with them, and that you can no longer trust them.

— Nef (@NefNeferteri) May 8, 2018

And might burn them with sweetness!

You could go false over-the-top sweet, and congratulate him on making some money. And since the person is a jerk, not interact with him again.

— Nef (@NefNeferteri) May 8, 2018

RIP

Manech would say nothing to their guild mate, just let them suffer.

Neithet. Just file the memory away for next time they need my heals and "accidently" allow them to die to AoE damage.

Italian Alzheimers: You forget everything but your enemies.

— Manech (@MichaelJPetty) May 8, 2018

Just Ask

When your guild mate screws you over, Marathal wishes they would just ask first.

Helped someone make something once by farming things and buying a few. They listed it for sale. All I told them was if they needed money for something they should have just asked.

— ⛈ Mara ⛈™️ (@The_Marathal) May 8, 2018

Worse than Reporting?

Guild mates have responsibility to you too. Break it, and Brunold will be disappointed in you. Very disappointed. *glares at you from over the top of slightly-lowered spectacles*

Worse. I'd be disappointed. Few people understand, but this is pretty much the worst a relationship could go with me.

— Brunold, a gnome mage pondering real life (@TobiasTegge) May 8, 2018

You get one chance

And then you’re not friends with Nef anymore

You could go false over-the-top sweet, and congratulate him on making some money. And since the person is a jerk, not interact with him again.

— Nef (@NefNeferteri) May 8, 2018

Depends on the Item

Jonathan thinks it depends on the item that’s on the AH

There would be a difference to me with items I don't often need but suddenly found myself needed and items I routinely deal in but gave away and then saw being sold.

— Jonathan Andrist (@rwfrk) May 8, 2018

Guildies are friends. Full Stop. Period.

Enikka’s guild mates are friends. No question.

Maybe I’m too honest for my own good. In her scenario I would’ve returned the item. Guildies are friends & 500k isn’t chump change for most even now.

— Enikka_CTR (@Enikka_Huntress) May 8, 2018

We got convoluted

Conversation got complicated! Nyn thinks this question depends on variables, Jonathan chats with her about it.

There are items I'm pretty sure have been sitting in these guild banks since the day I joined. None of them I'd use or they'd be gone. Other items bags? They were the most efficient way to level my crafts. I'd give them away. They craft at a loss anyway. Recoup isn't realistic.

— Jonathan Andrist (@rwfrk) May 8, 2018

No Crafting Cost

A recurring response was charging for materials, not for crafting work. Jamie and Amanda agree.

Free with your mats for guildies.

— Jamie Miller (@Szefir) May 8, 2018

If they bring me mats to make something I don't charge them. If I make them something I will charge them less then ah. Free services is my time to make the item. I could have been farming. Time is more valuable then gold.

— Amanda Thomas (@sanquisdragon) May 8, 2018

Amazing Day Trading idea

Suddenly we had an amazing day-trading idea from Manech.

With guild master privs, he would temporarily take the guild bank materials, trade them on the auction house, sell them, then buy even more with his gold.

I used to day-trade with guild's stores of herbs and fish during Cata. Had both market's timed, knew when bots posted cheaply.
In 3 months I did this we doubled inventory to where I had to create a 2nd guild to hold mats and tripled our liquid gold amount.

— Manech (@MichaelJPetty) May 8, 2018

Dishonest Guild Mates

Gets a big nope from TechZar and Jonathan

Concur. Dishonesty gets you a drop-kick. A misunderstanding is something I can work with, but you're not doing it again

— Jonathan Andrist (@rwfrk) May 8, 2018

When Trust Goes Wrong

Manech’s guildies screwed him over. Often. So have mine.

Five different times I crafted a chopper for a guildmate.

All five players quit Warcraft within a month later.

I'm afraid to do it again.

— Manech (@MichaelJPetty) May 8, 2018

Guild mates abusing your trust hurts more than strangers who take advantage. Heath talks about feeling cynical, Amanda expresses the same.

It sucks when it's someone you don't know. It's worse when it's people you do know. I've gotten friends toon up, gave them gold, time, expansions. Ask for a run or go do something together. Nope don't have time. 2 mins later can they ask for help expecting it.

— Amanda Thomas (@sanquisdragon) May 8, 2018

Ashwind lost a friend over Auction House pvp.

Touchy subject. I lost a friend over gold making on same server, mostly due to us coming to an agreement on markets we'd run and then him shoving me out of mine using dirty tactics, so I fought back. He's since left the server, which is my only server.

— Optimistic Ashwind, the Curious One (@AshwindGamer) May 8, 2018

Reward Good Guild Mates

Nyn recalls buying gift for guild mates and loves the memories.

Oh, and I bought someone the green fire starting item once too, so they could do the questline. I actually forgot about both of these until you asked this question.

— Nyn (@Lawilc01) May 8, 2018

Bradley thinks the best help is education.

People who put something up for obviously the wrong price (like 40g instead of 40,000g) buying it and mailing it back to them cod 40g because I’ve made that mistake before and it feels terrible.

— Bradley Weaver (@MrFlibble007) May 8, 2018

Over to you

What’s your opinion on trusting, helping and advising guild mates? How cynical have you become? How does that affect your interact with your guild?

About the Author

May 13, 2018/by The Gold Queen

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Goldmaking Ethics – Responsibility to Other Players

Is Gold Making helpful to other players on the server?

Put on your Big Boy Pants

Education is Giving

Undercutting is fair.

Sound Bite

How much do you give your fellow player?

Love the competitive game in the Auction House

Side Question

Profit is Profit

Work deserves rewards

What About The Small Items?

Education

Just Gift

But Beware

Should this be a question?

Karma’s gonna get ya

Things got Meta

Over to you

GoldMaking Ethics – Responsibility to Guildmates

Sold!

Nothing is Free

Size Matters

It’s Free!

Give Everything Away!

We help each other

Involve the Officers

Never Again

RIP

Just Ask

Worse than Reporting?

You get one chance

Depends on the Item

Guildies are friends. Full Stop. Period.

We got convoluted

No Crafting Cost

Amazing Day Trading idea

Dishonest Guild Mates

When Trust Goes Wrong

Reward Good Guild Mates

Over to you

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